Curse

Gill Halendt · Nov 16, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey

The problem is that we have not tracked how many turn ins people have done or what they turned in for, so we can't even remotely guess how much you should be credited. Without that information I just don't think it's a good idea to randomly give out points.

Fril, you're still failing to see the point of this whole thread: nobody here is asking for credit for EVERY TIME A MISSION HAS BEEN DONE in the past. Everyone here agrees that it would be impossibile and that it would make no sense. That's what Linsey is saying here: they couldn't anyway, since they haven't kept track of every turn-in.

People who cleared the game are ajust sking for the possibility to fill 1, ONE, ONE SINGLE book for having cleared the game already, that's it. That's plainly LOGIC, since that's what happened with EN books as well. By that time, tough, few players had played the whole game multiple times with multiple characters, so there was no "problem with economy", since the pay-per-fill books were just a few.

Look at what the NPC handing out books says when you ask to fill in missing pages:

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I can add those unwritten tales for 100 gold. That way you won't need to repeat anything you've already done.

That's ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, since the game keeps track of your progresses in the game. We even have get a trophy ("Eternal Hero") in the HoM for clearing a campaign, even without Protector of Guardian accomplished.

I can see this insane ammount of freshly-created money could hurt economy. So, people asking for ONE retroactive book also asked for the money reward to be removed for those retroactive books.

Hope it's now clear, hope you'll finally be able to see we're asking for nothing that would hurt newer players in any way. We just don't wanna be the ones let down by this.

Fril Estelin · Nov 16, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Fril, you're still failing to see the point of this whole thread:

<SNIP>

Hope it's now clear, hope you'll finally be able to see we're asking for nothing that would hurt newer players in any way. We just don't wanna be the ones let down by this.

I guess you missed/didn't read the various recent messages where I wrote that it's exactly what Anet should give you (well, other people want new content for "veteran" players and don't care about the book, so not everyone is asking for the same thing...).

Make sure that next time that you tell someone that he didn't understand what you said, you knew/understood what he said in the first place.

EDIT: even if I think it's a legitimate request to Anet for the sake of some kind of "fairness" (for those that do not hijack the term for their own selfish sake), I think it's a bit a childish reaction. Anet made tremendous efforts, people answered very positively here, and yet other people jump on this ship and complain ad nauseam. You should create a new thread and be more constructive about this, because, even without being judgemental, one can't help to think that you're QQing (from the tone of your messages, as I said several times there are legitimate requests).

ParanoidDenny · Nov 16, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Well Linsey and the GW1 team think they're right, time will tell innit.

Thing is how many more times are the loyal 3+ year veterans gonna keep getting short changed or screwed until theres nobody left to move over to GW2. Logic dictates that this sort of updating and nerfing of skills ect.. is going to go on in GW2, the evidence is littered all over GW1 which is now so broken the game should be renamed Humpty dumpty cause they can't put this pile of digital coding back together again.

Gill Halendt · Nov 16, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Make sure that next time that you tell someone that he didn't understand what you said, you knew/understood what he said in the first place.

If you keep on quoting Linsey about something that has little to do with our complaint, I'll assume you still haven't got the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

even if I think it's a legitimate request to Anet for the sake of some kind of "fairness" (for those that do not hijack the term for their own selfish sake), I think it's a bit a childish reaction. Anet made tremendous efforts, people answered very positively here.

I did answer positively myself. I think this is a GREAT update. This doesn't prevent me from some criticism tough.

I didn't even plan to comment about books, I was dealing with it already... before I started reading through this thread. What you call a "childish reaction" is the result of some replies of childish people who defended this unfair situation because, basically, "veterans are unpleasant and ungrateful people who deserve this".

I'm still wondering why those people are against it, since it doesn't change a thing in THEIR game. Unless they're childish and envious of what veterans could have gotten, there's no other explanation, sorry.

Fril Estelin · Nov 16, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

If you keep on quoting Linsey about something that has little to do with our complaint, I'll assume you still haven't got the point.

Please, stop trying to win an argument here. I quoted her not to justify my point but explain hers. And I'll say it again: you didn't see or understood that I was saying it'd be only "fair" to give those that have LG 2 books.

Quote:

What you call a "childish reaction" is the result of some replies of childish people who defended this unfair situation because, basically, "veterans are unpleasant and ungrateful people who deserve this".

"Veterans" are not "you and those on your side". Stop claiming it is, because it is not. You defend your point of view and it's legitimate, stop saying "we, the veteran players deserve this because of our inner quality of veterans".

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since it doesn't change a thing in THEIR game.

Well this update doesn't change a thing in YOUR game (it's only about your feeling about Anet and how they treat you), so why the discussion?

fenix · Nov 16, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Would be nice for it to be retroactive, because there's no way I'm ever doing a book since I've already done Legendary Guardian....

I thought I would quote myself, seeing how the discussion has not advanced past this issue at all in the last 5 pages.

Basically, it would be nice to have credit, since we've done it before, but either way, we're not gonna do it all again...so we either get points or we don't.

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I thought I would quote myself, seeing how the discussion has not advanced past this issue at all in the last 5 pages.

Basically, it would be nice to have credit, since we've done it before, but either way, we're not gonna do it all again...so we either get points or we don't.

that's why it's unfair,people who still need legendary guardian get cookies for it and the titles while the ones who alrdy did it get nothing

Lagg · Nov 16, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltazar knight

this is just unfair... yes most of veternans aren't so active anymore including me but that doesn't mean that the new players should get free things were the veternans worked so hard for!

I do agree that it's unfair on some level, but how exactly did we work hard for anything?

If you perceive accomplishments in a game as work, you're either not playing it for fun anymore, or getting paid to play.

The books are obviously there to entice people to play.

And this brings us to the core of the problem. Most "veterans" don't log in to Guild Wars to actually play for fun. It's all egotripping over bragging rights or some idle hope that maxed titles will give you an edge over other players when Guild Wars 2 is released.

Gill Halendt · Nov 16, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

"Veterans" are not "you and those on your side". Stop claiming it is, because it is not. You defend your point of view and it's legitimate, stop saying "we, the veteran players deserve this because of our inner quality of veterans".

No. We (not only "veterans", but "we, players who could have benefited from books had they been retroactive as it seems so reasonable") are not asking for a special treatment. We deserve it because we did things before. I know a lot of veterans who have no inner quality to set them apart from the mass. I don't think I'm that great myself to claim for a special present from Anet just because I was there on Day1. Yet I spent time doing things and I DID them, so why can't I get the reward being given just now, 3 years after the launch of the first game?

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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

so why the discussion?

Because some people - you among the others - came here to ask to stop complaining while legitimately expressing our point of view. Why?

Gill Halendt · Nov 16, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

The books are obviously there to entice people to play.

... or to entice players who already played the game once to repeat a boring activity again just to claim for a reward, and then maybe repeating it again and again... which is anything but playing.

If books are just for playing, why giving rewards now? Isn't playing meant to be just for FUN anyway? Rewards are pointless then, get rid of them all once and for good.

And, BTW, who are you to say what's fun for those people complaining here?

I find improving my titles fun, so?

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

I do agree that it's unfair on some level, but how exactly did we work hard for anything?

If you perceive accomplishments in a game as work, you're either not playing it for fun anymore, or getting paid to play.

The books are obviously there to entice people to play.

And this brings us to the core of the problem. Most "veterans" don't log in to Guild Wars to actually play for fun. It's all egotripping over bragging rights or some idle hope that maxed titles will give you an edge over other players when Guild Wars 2 is released.

wrong if i log into gw IT IS for fun and yes i worked hard and stop talking in WE

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

so why the discussion?

Because some people - you among the others - came here to ask to stop complaining while legitimately expressing our point of view. Why?

@Fril this thread is a discussion about the books that should be retroactive that's one of the purposes of Riverside: Discussing!

Meo Yeong · Nov 16, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

You need to do the hm shiros book 83 times which is 913-914 hm missions since from my understanding the book awards of 120000 faction points goes straight to the kurzick or luxon title and not in your faction pool so thus you can't get double faction for turning in points to reward npc. The comments about making the books retroactive really would be nice but if you look at those numbers one book is a drop in the bucket of what you need to get for that title.

FFF has been nerfed.

And they upped the faction which is still slow as hell and you looking at having no life now for sure toget either title.

If anything I think they need to change the amount of faction you need for those titles from 10000000 to a smaller amount.

Lightbringer and sunspear along with any eotn titles where easier to get. In my opinion they need to balance the kurzick and luxon title to match those for ability to achieve.

I was running through factins last night and I didn't see more people at the missions then usual because no one wants to do 83 hm books that I have spoken too.

As to we deserve it bla bla bla well it would be nice but it is only a drop in the bucket and really wouldn't help us in the end.

felwyn · Nov 16, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltazar knight

stop talking in WE

He can talk in "WE" all he wants because from now on he represents me as well

As stated elsewhere...the official excuse for not making it retroactive (i.e. it will hurt the economy) goes beyond my reasoning capabilities since the book itself gives free money by definition upon completion

So, if we all started completing missions and trading in books it would have the same effect.

There is really no reason to demand at least the faction reward back to the people who have achieved the titles.

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by felwyn

He can talk in "WE" all he wants because from now on he represents me as well

As stated elsewhere...the official excuse for not making it retroactive (i.e. it will hurt the economy) goes beyond my reasoning capabilities since the book itself gives free money by definition upon completion

So, if we all started completing missions and trading in books it would have the same effect.

There is really no reason to demand at least the faction reward back to the people who have achieved the titles.

thee official excuse is bullsh*t the econimy won't die of people who alrdy got protector/guardian and want to claim there rewards

pOmrAkkUn · Nov 16, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I don't see any disadvantage about who have done all missions before we have books.

for those people who keep asking for reward from books.
Get the book then do missions u will get same rewards as other players.
if u don't want to do all missions again just don't do it. no one force u to do that.

I think it is just so stupid to QQ about what u have done.

what's next thing u gonna QQ?

" awww give me Zaishen points coz i used Z-Keys before title was introduced."
" Anet give me Party points for those Firework i've used before Party Animal title."
" QQ give me Treasure Hunter points for my Shiverpeak Keys I used 3 years ago."

Arduin · Nov 16, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

A new player cannot benefit the way I did. Their cap is set at 10k. They cannot reap the full benefits like a veteran who has gone through the game can. A new player would have to do a multiple number of tasks before he can reap full rewards for vanquishing.

A new player can't vanquish. That new player can only vanquish when he/she completed the entire campaign. Only then Hardmode is activated.

Using your list, that new player will have his cap inreased with:

Quote:

-Completing Arborstone, Eternal Grove, and Unwaking Waters will raise Kurzick faction cap by 7000.
-Completing the quest Befriending the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 10,000.

A total of 17.000 for the Kurzick side, which sums up to a 27k cap.

Remember this is accomplished with ONLY going through the story line. If that new player decides to play an AB, Challenge Mission or FA/JQ, the cap will be raised even more.

At this point, the 'new' player (or is he/she already a veteran?) probably starts his first vanquish.

Lagg · Nov 16, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

... or to entice players who already played the game once to repeat a boring activity again just to claim for a reward, and then maybe repeating it again and again... which is anything but playing.

The keyword here is "boring".

If, like me, you find activities in Guild Wars have turned boring, then nothing except for fresh content is going to make you want to start playing again.

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If books are just for playing, why giving rewards now? Isn't playing meant to be just for FUN anyway? Rewards are pointless then, get rid of them all once and for good.

To reward new players.

Guild Wars is a bargain bin miracle.

Selling copies and expansions is ArenaNet's only source of income.

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And, BTW, who are you to say what's fun for those people complaining here?

I find improving my titles fun, so?

So did I.

Playing with my friends towards titles was a reward in itself.

I really don't need any extra gold, experience or faction.

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

I really don't need any extra gold, experience or faction.

but i want and so others want

Wrath of m0o · Nov 16, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

So..lets have an update that removes retroactive books from the game alltogether. If you were dumb enough to not take a NM or HM book with you in EOTN than you shouldnt be able to pay to get those pages filled in that book.
This isnt just about Veteran players, It goes for all players..everyone that hasnt finished a campaign has to go back and redo every mission they have already done.
If the books wernt retoactive in the first place..we wouldnt even be having this discussion.